2018-10-10 22:41![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
grok_mctanys
grok_mctanysI think that a large part of the reason that I don't want a second Brexit vote, is that I'm afraid it will come back exactly the same, confirming my worst fears about the state of the world, and a lot of the people in it.
LBC conducted a poll recently where apparently 54% of Brexit supporters questioned are happy to leave even if food prices rise significantly, and 51% are happy to leave even if it means that the UK goes into recession[0]. In my previous post, I mentioned that I thought that most Brexit supporters were that way because they had a genuine belief that Brexit would make people better off. This result though, I have no explanation for, other than the world is full of awful people who are just... mean. The kind of people who'd cut of their nose to spite their face. Just ugly, xenophobic assholes.
Looking through the twit thread announcing the LBC poll results, there are a number of people saying that it's about sovereignty and not having laws "imposed" by Europe, but I don't understand that. Putting aside issues about the relationship between EU statutes and UK law, the EU laws that are passed are passed by democratically elected MEPs who we voted for. EU laws aren't "imposed" by the European parliament, any more than UK laws are "imposed" by the UK parliament. As individual citizens we don't vote on individual laws in either case, but we do vote for our MPs/MEPs to represent us and our interests, to vote in parliament on our behalf, and to pass laws on our behalf.
The thing is, it's not like the Brexiteers have a monopoly on being mean, spiteful people. It seems like they're ever more in charge at various levels of multiple governments throughout the world, and are supported by large numbers of people who are revel in the meanness and the spite. People who are joyous in defeating their political opponents, not just because they think their own ideas will lead to a better future, but because they take delight in others' disappointment. It seems like winning is valued more for being able to flaunt the win itself over the losers, rather than for the (perceived) progress made possible by the win.
The world seems full of awful people, and I don't want a second Brexit vote because I don't want to gather any more evidence that this is actually the case.
Yes, I'm aware that of the recent reporting by The Evening Standard on "polls of polls" conducted by YouGov and What UK Thinks that show more people are currently in favour of Remain than not, but that's what polls showed before the first referendum[1], and on top of that it seems like the deplorables are much better at actually turning out to vote.
The thing is, I can't even claim any moral high ground myself. I was watching Newsnight the other day and they were doing a segment on climate change, and had a US politician on to talk about it who started trotting out a bunch of denialist talking points. I literally could not keep watching. I got so angry I just had to switch the programme off. I wasn't even willing to listen to what this guy had to say. I'm convinced he's either a complete fucking idiot, or is a disingenuous asshole arguing in bad faith. I can't bring myself to believe that he is even capable of having a valid point worth listening to, let alone trying to understand what he's saying and evaluating it fairly. I don't want to listen, and there is literally nothing he could have said that would have made me alter any of my beliefs.
And that's bad. How... how did that happen? If that's how I feel, why should anyone I disagree with listen to me in return, or to the people I listen to? How did we get here, to this dark place? And how do we get back?
[0] Goes into? I assumed ongoing austerity measures meant we'd never actually left...
[1] Or maybe the polls did support Brexit, but everyone seemed to think the polls supported Remain at the time, until they were wrong, and then everyone used hindsight to show why the polls actually supported Brexit all along?
LBC conducted a poll recently where apparently 54% of Brexit supporters questioned are happy to leave even if food prices rise significantly, and 51% are happy to leave even if it means that the UK goes into recession[0]. In my previous post, I mentioned that I thought that most Brexit supporters were that way because they had a genuine belief that Brexit would make people better off. This result though, I have no explanation for, other than the world is full of awful people who are just... mean. The kind of people who'd cut of their nose to spite their face. Just ugly, xenophobic assholes.
Looking through the twit thread announcing the LBC poll results, there are a number of people saying that it's about sovereignty and not having laws "imposed" by Europe, but I don't understand that. Putting aside issues about the relationship between EU statutes and UK law, the EU laws that are passed are passed by democratically elected MEPs who we voted for. EU laws aren't "imposed" by the European parliament, any more than UK laws are "imposed" by the UK parliament. As individual citizens we don't vote on individual laws in either case, but we do vote for our MPs/MEPs to represent us and our interests, to vote in parliament on our behalf, and to pass laws on our behalf.
The thing is, it's not like the Brexiteers have a monopoly on being mean, spiteful people. It seems like they're ever more in charge at various levels of multiple governments throughout the world, and are supported by large numbers of people who are revel in the meanness and the spite. People who are joyous in defeating their political opponents, not just because they think their own ideas will lead to a better future, but because they take delight in others' disappointment. It seems like winning is valued more for being able to flaunt the win itself over the losers, rather than for the (perceived) progress made possible by the win.
The world seems full of awful people, and I don't want a second Brexit vote because I don't want to gather any more evidence that this is actually the case.
Yes, I'm aware that of the recent reporting by The Evening Standard on "polls of polls" conducted by YouGov and What UK Thinks that show more people are currently in favour of Remain than not, but that's what polls showed before the first referendum[1], and on top of that it seems like the deplorables are much better at actually turning out to vote.
The thing is, I can't even claim any moral high ground myself. I was watching Newsnight the other day and they were doing a segment on climate change, and had a US politician on to talk about it who started trotting out a bunch of denialist talking points. I literally could not keep watching. I got so angry I just had to switch the programme off. I wasn't even willing to listen to what this guy had to say. I'm convinced he's either a complete fucking idiot, or is a disingenuous asshole arguing in bad faith. I can't bring myself to believe that he is even capable of having a valid point worth listening to, let alone trying to understand what he's saying and evaluating it fairly. I don't want to listen, and there is literally nothing he could have said that would have made me alter any of my beliefs.
And that's bad. How... how did that happen? If that's how I feel, why should anyone I disagree with listen to me in return, or to the people I listen to? How did we get here, to this dark place? And how do we get back?
[0] Goes into? I assumed ongoing austerity measures meant we'd never actually left...
[1] Or maybe the polls did support Brexit, but everyone seemed to think the polls supported Remain at the time, until they were wrong, and then everyone used hindsight to show why the polls actually supported Brexit all along?
(no subject)
But yes, I'm not convinced a second vote would produce a different outcome either.
Climate change denier politicians are liars, and are literally a threat to the world as we know it. It's fine to get cross with them.